Recent Nutrition Log Changes

38 post(s), 20 voice(s)
Voices: Doo, Mateo1041, jakjak, iends, blogkitten, joshmathis, sprouty76, Notin, sewblue, lizanneh, cccc, gregorio, NicChicTN, johnburn, mgorman85, walkinlooove, jerllouk, Femme_n_Fit, absmith, and stevemarks04

Forums → General Discussion → Recent Nutrition Log Changes

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Jul 16, 2009 7:52am Doo 163 posts	I didn’t see another topic regarding this so I decided to start one. I like the new nutrition breakdown with summary for the day. At a glance you can see what foods are providing more of your goals and which ones are falling behind. I am also seeing that some foods that I know have Potassium are not listing any. Seems that a lot of manufacturers are not reporting it on the nutrition labels.

Jul 16, 2009 8:10am Mateo1041 165 posts	While I appreciate the new layout, I can’t stand how it’s all scrunched into such a small area. In attempting to increase usefulness or converts to “Pro”, they’ve made some bad decisions and are actually making the website less useful in the process. I just want to enter my nutrition info.

Jul 16, 2009 8:21am jakjak 85 posts	I like that you can specify meals for grouping as well. Helps to know if my calories are evenly spread through the day. Has there always been a cap on Favorite Foods for non-Pro members? That’s pretty annoying.

Jul 16, 2009 9:04am iends 30 posts	The cap in favorite foods only occurred this week, unfortunately.

Jul 16, 2009 11:58am blogkitten 40 posts	“The cap in favorite foods only occurred this week, unfortunately.” What’s the cap? And why are they treating non-pro users like garbage now (i.e. taking features away)? I can see why people go pro…but I don’t want that level of tracking so I’m content with just the regular account. Now I can’t have as many favorites as before? Seriously? Not impressed.

Jul 16, 2009 12:22pm joshmathis 3 posts	I don’t see where to add/change food groups anymore. The new nutrition log is a step in the right direction, but don’t take stuff away. I do have a Pro account, but really now… just add features and incentives for Pro members. Then the folks who want more will pay for it. Don’t take stuff away from non-pro users. That’s pretty stinky and a good reason to go (back) to FitDay.

Jul 16, 2009 3:24pm sprouty76 39 posts	I’m considering the cap on favourite foods to be a bait & switch. Sadly, I feel like I’ve wasted 6 months entering my exercise & nutrition details as I’ll have to enter them into another site now. Pity there’s no real way to export data to some open format.

Jul 17, 2009 4:27am Notin 36 posts	Oddly enough, when you plan a meal using meal planner, it doesn’t seem to display your information in the neat little table like when you add food on the fly… Wonder why that is?

Jul 17, 2009 6:14am sewblue 197 posts ...	I like the new feature of meal grouping so I can tell how many calories I had at each meal and if I’m spreading my calories the way I want them throughout the day. I really try to have my highest calorie intake at lunch. It also helps me decide what I can have for afternoon snack and dinner based on how many calories I have left without going over my goal. I look at my calorie goal as a credit card with a limit.

Jul 17, 2009 7:04am blogkitten 40 posts	@sprouty76 – you’re right, it’s a total “bait and switch”. They should concentrate on providing more services to Pro members to keep them happy as they’re paying for the service (and to give us non-Pro members some incentive to sign up!) instead of alienating the non-Pro members by taking away features on a whim. I could care less about the meal grouping thing – so why not just have that be a Pro feature? Give me back my favorites!

Jul 17, 2009 12:48pm lizanneh 757 posts	The meal grouping “thing” reduces the need for as many custom “favorite” items. It was a common request of even the most basic users. So blogkitten, while it may not be something you personally want (by the way, I think you meant you “couldn’t care less”), other people have been asking for it for over a year. And IMO, it’s perfectly reasonable to restrict the number of favorite items, since this takes database space to maintain. Now I don’t know what the restriction was, so maybe it’s unreasonably low. Perhaps asking them to raise the limit would be a better approach. I haven’t used the nutrition planner in a few weeks, but I may have to try it again, since the meal grouping will make it much easier for me to input my meals, which are largely similar except for a few ingredients.

Jul 17, 2009 3:44pm jakjak 85 posts	I hate to refute you lizanneh, but I’m a database administrator. The amount of space required to hold the food info is minuscule, and I really doubt that capping our favorites would save them even a penny. This is obviously just marketing to get people to go pro.

Jul 18, 2009 7:03am lizanneh 757 posts	Fair enough. You would know better than I. I’m a financial analyst, so don’t have to do much database administration.

Jul 18, 2009 8:23am cccc 266 posts	Usually I wouldn’t check the teeth of a given horse… but, here, it’s different. Well, to be frank, I feel that they used the non-pro to build a very large data-base and now they have enough items so they limit the number of favorite food to non-pro. They want to sell us our own data… smart business. If that’s so, we could as well enter our favorites in an excell sheet. I don’t feel like entering details of new foods… that I will not be able to get in my own favorites. I understand Blogkitten’s point of view. The meal grouping, you like or not, but it was not in the initial offer, so it’s logical to propose it for the paying version… even if many were asking it, nobody asked everything for free. For body measurements, etc, the problem is they were there and have been erased without any warning. And that’s a true deterrent for some that were on the non-pro as a trial like me. I would have understood a trial plan like “you can enter your data during 3 months… then you upgrade or you lose some features”. I will never pay for a site that dare erasing some of my data after using it. On the contrary, I am getting a back up of my stats, before the next restriction of features.

Jul 18, 2009 11:30am gregorio 13 posts	Lizaanneh, not to jump down your throat but I vehemently disagree that it’s perfectly reasonable to limit favorites. First let me state that I’m a pro user so this doesn’t affect me, however, I’m a software architect with 7+ years of experience and my gut tells me they’ve made a huge mistake. Dailyburn is running off a Freemium business plan, it allows anyone to use it for free but charges for premium features, which I think is a wonderful idea. Let me state clearly that whoever at DailyBurn thinks that “Unlimited Favorites” is a premium feature grossly misunderstands the business model. I admit that there’s no clear definition of what a “premium” should be, however there are some guidelines that are common in the software industry. There are a ton but the main 2 are below which are what Daily Burn should ask itself about any feature that’s worthy of being considered “Pro/Premium”. Did the feature take a considerable investment? (development time, cost, etc) Great features usually cost a lot to develop b/c they have to be well planned and executed. You can use this as a heuristic to measure “premiumness”. Does the feature have a User Interface? Anything with an interface is a tangible, physical, lovable “thing”. Users talk about it and they promote it. For example, imagine following mock conversation about the meal planner, a great premium feature. Frank: “Have you used the Meal Planner?” Bob: “no…” Frank “oh man it’s awesome… totally worth the extra cash” Consider now “Unlimited favorites” as a feature. Did it take a long time to develop? NO. Does it have some kind of user interface? NO. Let’s take the same conversation and talk about this great new premium feature… “Unlimited Favorites” Frank: “Did you know you can get unlimited favorites?”, Bob: “no…” Frank: “Oh man it’s awesome, totally worth the extra cash.” There is a fine line sometimes on what’s a “Pro” feature, but I also know bullshit when I see it. Clearly “Unlimited favorites” and “Meal Planner Pro” are on two separate levels. That’s not to say all premium features have to all be noteworthy but the difference b/t these two “features” is clearly visible to anyone with software experience. Everything about “Unlimited Favorites” screams that Daily Burn needs more cash and that they’re willing to start crippling the free version to make that a reality. Take this for what it’s worth, people will start hating the free version, and will never ever buy the pro version. There’s one last point I want to make and if anything I hope this sinks in to someone over and Daily Burn HQ… To the big wigs at Daily burn HQ: You violated what is practically a LAW in the world software development practices. NEVER, ever, EVER take away a feature that’s already free. I seriously recommend someone at Daily Burn take a long hard look at what else is on the Chopping Block. If this is indicative of what’s to come then I’ll go back to to using Microsoft Excel. Much respect, Greg

Jul 18, 2009 3:36pm NicChicTN 12 posts	I was annoyed by the limit on Favorites, but I’m totally peeved to learn that my body tracking measurements I’ve logged over the last few months are GONE. Thanks for that, I’ll go back to my notebook log and quit recommending the site to all my friends.

Jul 18, 2009 3:38pm NicChicTN 12 posts	Okay, a wee bit less peeved… I found my old entries by clicking “edit my data” or whatever. But still not happy that some basic features were taken away. What a blindside.

Jul 18, 2009 10:57pm johnburn 4 posts	Disappointed by the ethos of the change more than the change itself. Will go back to using Daily Plate which is also a pro account type set up but they don’t have restrictions like these.

Jul 19, 2009 6:46am sprouty76 39 posts	Yeah, if it had always had a limit I probably never would have signed up. Now though they’ve built up a critical mass of users submitting foods, challenges and contributing to the forums they feel they can start removing features to pressure some of us into paying. Now I’ve got to go to another site (which isn’t so bad), but I’ve got to find some way to get all of that data out of dailyburn and into wherever I go to.

Jul 19, 2009 5:29pm mgorman85 4 posts	@gregorio i think you made a number of great points. i have been supporting dailyburn for over a year and have loved using it. however, it seems that since they started taking on investors, the business model of the site has changed. i understand the need to draw in pro users and increase revenue, but capitalism being what it is, users are simply going to go somewhere else where they don’t feel like they are getting screwed around with. i understand that i haven’t “paid” for anything that i’ve used on this site, but that is what ads are for and part of the deal that they had in place. now they are trying to change the terms of that deal. this is simply poor business ethics. i think it would be completely reasonable to make these changes affect any new members, but to do it to the people who have made you who you are is sketchy. that being said, i’ve switched fitness programs. if dailyburn decides to rethink the moves they’ve made, i might come back.

Jul 20, 2009 7:08am blogkitten 40 posts	I’m definitely transitioning to the Daily Plate over at Livestrong.com. Glad to know I’m not the only one incensed over the changes around here. . @lizanneh – I did mean “couldn’t”…just typed it out too fast. . @gregorio – THANK YOU for that. The tiny number of bytes that each item (even with an image) takes up in a database is, in the whole scheme of things, minor. I’m just mad that I helped develop this database by entering items that I consume that weren’t in there before, and now they’re thanking me for that hard work by giving me the shaft. . In most “Web 2.0” companies that have a free and a paid/pro userbase, the goal is to have 5% of the total userbase to be paying for the service. In all reality, most run around 2-3% of the total userbase. Successful companies that use this model do limit the number of features that a free account has (Flickr limits the amount uploaded per month and the number of sets for free users), has a set of features for the “pro” user that pertain to the business of the site (again, Flickr has unlimited uploading and unlimited sets for “pro” users), and when any changes are made, things are always ADDED to either the entire site or to just “pro” users only. Features are NEVER taken away from the free user, unless the change affects the entire site – meaning the “pro” users lose the feature as well. . Signaling out the free user over something (as gregorio pointed out) that doesn’t impact the financial cost nor the electronic storage of items on this site smells of desperation and possible future bad business decisions going forward. . Without a robust community of both free and “pro” users, your traffic will go down, the buzz about your site will be of the negative variety and all that ad revenue that you earn off the backs of the free user will dwindle and die. . An explanation from the DailyBurn team as to WHY the changes were made would’ve made this development a bit more easy to swallow. Instead they just changed things without a peep and hoped nobody would notice that they’re slowly removing features from people who haven’t found a good reason to pay for the service. Doing this will make me leave, not pay for it. Yes, I said I’m transitioning to Livestrong.com….but I don’t want to. I’ve invested a lot of my time and energy to contribute to this site and I would love to continue using it, but not if this isn’t rectified. . I’m getting rambly now…I am interested on what others (both free and pro users) think about this.

Jul 20, 2009 8:37am walkinlooove 159 posts	i agree with most here—i like the meal grouping feature, but i’d rather have unlimited favorite foods than the meal grouping. it’s a poor business model to take away features that have been available all along. they set a precedent which they are now rescinding, and it’s not right. and now they’re losing members over it, which is just sad. they should have made meal grouping a pro feature, and kept the favorite foods. not sure if this was just an oversight on their part, or intentional, but either way, i think it was a very poor choice. also, i LOATHE the ad for pro accounts that shows up in my nutrition log under the stats that come with the pro account. it’s ridiculous—i know there is a pro account available, it is well-advertised on the site, so why on earth would you put a HUGE ad there? it’s annoying, and being annoying and ‘in your face’ certainly doesn’t sell pro accounts. it was much classier before when it was a simple “this is a pro feature”, or whatever it said.

Jul 20, 2009 11:34am lizanneh 757 posts	@blogkitten Of course I knew what you meant. It’s just one of my pet peeves when people say that they “could care less” when of course they mean that they “couldn’t care less.” Many people don’t even realize the difference, and that drives me absolutely batty! It sounds like you don’t want to leave, so before you do, why not email your complaint, or post it on the support board, or something of that nature? If a large percentage of the active free members feel strongly about the change, I’m sure they’ll consider reinstating the unlimited favorites (or raising the limit). Regarding meal grouping as a pro feature – since pros can already use the meal planner, I feel strongly that the new meal grouping feature should remain available to all users. The meal planner makes it easier to record meals that are similar, except for a few key ingredients. However, without it, free members have no simple way to record their daily sandwich or salad, which might differ by one or two ingredients from the sandwich or salad eaten the previous day. Their options are to 1) enter each individual ingredient; 2) create a recipe for a similar sandwich/salad and use it in the log each day, even though it might not be accurate; 3) create a recipe for the unchanging parts of the sandwich/salad and enter individual ingredients for the items that vary. I tried all three of these approaches as both a pro and a free member, and frankly, the lack of a grouping feature drove me to Sparkpeople.com. (Sparkpeople has a grouping feature for their free members.) Eventually, I came back to dailyburn.com because I preferred the exercise interface, but I am happy to see improvements to the nutrition logging, particularly those that put the site more on par with others of its kind. Apparently, lots of you disagree with me that it was reasonable for them to put SOME kind of limit on the favorite items, and you’re entitled to your opinion (as I am to mine). Again, if there’s a large number of users who are bothered by the limit, I think that complaining to the site owners would be more productive than continuing the discussion here. I do think the site owners should have stopped off in the forums or posted something in the blog, announcing the changes and soliciting feedback. They’ve done this from time to time in the past. I suppose they’re so busy with the iphone app that they didn’t get to it, and shame on them for that. I’m curious to hear about the loss of bodytracker data. Did they change the fields available in the bodytracker for free members as well?

Jul 20, 2009 11:41am lizanneh 757 posts	Okay, now that I’ve made that suggestion, the link to the support site and the “contact us” link are both acting wonky on my PC. If anyone else is having that problem, you can try emailing your concerns about the change to info@dailyburn.com

Jul 20, 2009 1:49pm blogkitten 40 posts	@lizanneh – Hehe…I know what you mean by pet peeves…today I read an email where someone said “for all intensive purposes”….it’s “intents and purposes!” . I left SparkPeople for the same reason – I liked Gyminee’s (RIP) integration of exercise and food tracking. . RE: grouping – Can we save grouped items? Perhaps that’s a pro feature?

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